I call BS on that. Both my middle of the road MBPs have been consistently way faster in dev tasks than anything else remotely similarly spec'ed, including new shiny laptops with 16GB and SSDs.
Sorry... :)
Plus, anyone here that's remotely geeky that's used their MBP will know that access to a real bash shell smokes both command.com or powershell. :)
Try to find a PC equivalent of the 27 inch iMac that matches it in price, convenience and build quality. I've tried, and failed :( Also, Linux runs on PC's (amongst other things). Is PC now a synonym for MS-Windows? :)
Dean Budd - 2012-04-26 11:07:32+1000 - Updated: 2012-04-26 11:12:08+1000
+Martin Paulo Really? I had a PC built with very high quality parts, immaculate cable management and enough power to see me in the latest DX11 games (BF3 and Skyrim require a tonne of grunt) all in an incredible case (Fractal R3) with 27" monitor for $1500. This included a 120GB SSD
Dean: What was your 27 inch screen resolution, out of curiosity? I am going to argue that your machine isn't the equivalent because it's not an all in one unit. I don't want big boxes and lots of cables...
Terrence: the build standard is difficult to compare because Dean has a set of boxes, the iMac is just one. Wrapped in a very nice all in one aluminium EMF shield :)
can't believe you guys started a serious debate over a silly humor type pic... ;-)))
my $0.15 as follows
the limitations of the OS X (especially coming from Windows camp ;) is just as much of a urban myth as it's some "magical" superior stability
(one area where I find Windows is "superior" is that it never fails (via Ctr-Alt-Del) to be able to bring up the task manager so you can kill an astray app stuck in some stupid infinite loop or some other stupid state... on OS X this is somewhat more problematic (unless you were wise enough to keep a terminal window running in anticipation of that very need ;)
(btw, +Alex Megremis made very good point about a real UNIX being "hidden" in the terminal window on OS X... also - as not all people are aware of - once you install XCode you get in (/Developer) almost all of the "UNIX-y" bonanza created by humankind under auspices of the GNU/GCC/etc - i.e. GCC, Perl, Python, etc, etc
in my personal experiences, the file manager ("Finder") takes quite some cultural adjustment from a "normal" one (NortonCommander and/or Windows Explorer kind... (at least I know it takes 5 years in my case and is still work in progress...) I honestly think the "Finder" is a holdover from the OS 9 (which was an ailing pile of crap)
Linux is great if you don't use GUI apps and multimedia, also the GUI fonts are an OHS hazard for anyone with glasses (I know there are allegedly ways to tweak/fix that once you start deviating from the '100% free and open source' maxim, but you need some determination for that) also "Linux on a desktop" - or rather multitude and frequency of the distros makes a great hobby for anyone with too much time on their hands (e.g unmarried young men)
re: Hardware
granted if you (still) are into "DIY" like +Dean Budd kits then OS X and Macs are out of the consideration - but if you buy all-assembled brands - I'd second +Martin Paulo comment about 27" iMac (as I have one too ;)
FWIW I would frown upon a classic desktop build these days just because it's accepted to still be a cable clutter sinkhole, even if just to connect all the external bits together.
A classic tower on the floor layout will at a minimum require cables for: tower-kbd tower-mouse tower-audio tower-electricity tower-monitor and of course, monitor-power
People will pay a premium for in-case cable management, and yet find all this acceptable at a consumer good level. It's a bit of a head-in-the-sand situation.
+Alex Megremis also I "love" (in Finder, and in fact in many other UI places how it displays only a part of the long(ish) file name followed with "..." ;-))
I was just interested in that I recently tried to buy a machine without windows that was about on par with the iMac and found that I couldn't.
I couldn't even find one with windows, to my surprise.
I now wonder if Microsoft is setting some sort of hardware requirements for windows that prevents people like dell from competing effectively with apple?
IMHO, Microsoft is hardly the one to be blamed here... IMHO, Dell have been "sleeping at the wheel" and been doing so for quite some time and HP was even more so - in fact HP been more like "smoking something"... btw, did they "undo" yet that "executive decision" to get out of PC/laptops or they are going ahead with that...??
if any competition to Apple (hardware-wise) is going to show up I'd expect it to be Samsung or something like that...
Why I was wondering "Microsoft?" is just that not only Dell and HP are asleep at the wheel: all other major PC manufacturers seem to have the same disease. They are like dead men walking: clueless as to what people really want.
This discussion has been done before (surprise). The register ran a review of the 27 inch iMac (http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/17/review_apple_imac_27in/). The take away line? "Frankly, if you’re in the market for a home computer, forget it – it’s too good for you" :)
+Alex Megremis Regarding your first post, I agree with you. I think it's because of the extra cycles required to get the OS to do anything for you. Windows of course is a resource hog so you can get anything done quicker on anything else. OSX IMHO has struck that balance between desktop users and devs (the ease vs annoyance factors). Coupled with MacPorts for my Linux tools goodness and I'm good to go for either some hard core programming or media production (mainly music).
I do miss the ability though to hack my kernel to strip out all the bits I don't want/need (or make them modules). With 16GB RAM, the kernel reserves ~1GB just for itself (it's a percentage thing - less total RAM would result in less reservation). I don't mind the kernel NOT running out of RAM, but a stripped done kernel would require even less :)
Actually if you can't hear the difference between vinyl and a CD chances are that you've been to a tad too many rock concerts without earplugs.
A mate of mine tried to convert me to Hendrixism and gave me a couple of "best of" CDs. They'd been lifted directly from non digital recordings and the analog artifacts were clearly evident.
Now when one starts talking about digital recordings (apples to apples here) about > ~192kHZ that's when the wankering begins :D
Well, it's a specialist's distinction, isn't it? I could likely pick the film shot over the digital, if they're shot in a way to show one's weakness over the other, and I could pick the kit zoom lens over the fast prime. You could pick the CD over the LP playback.
I wouldn't be able to pick one from the other for their audio fidelity, but rather maaaaaybe for the warmer sound I might perceive from an older amp.
You might pick the difference in the film vs digital, or the different look of the fast prime over the cheap kit zoom, but you won't know which is which, or why they matter.
Win8 might be a tad different, and people tend to hate different, but pigs will be flying over a frozen over Hell before Linux becomes anything more than a curiosity on the desktop.
Win8 is a brave move on MS's part. They're breaking the mould to some degree. As with all things widely visible and discussed on the web, there will be vocal haters and the relevant flamewars.
But it won't be a flop. The only way Windows could ever really be threatened would be if Apple sold their machines at half price, or if they face another Vista-like backlash (they won't, it's no longer "cool" to do MS-bashing).
I don't know why Valve is bothering with Linux ports. Maybe they're preparing to release to Android. Maybe it's an "just in case" move. Whatever the drive is, I doubt anyone really believes Windows could fail.
DirectX is like the Apple of the gaming world. With a huge marketing machine behind it, and a "complete" set of APIs it's become the defacto gaming standard. The problem of design by committee is why OpenGL hasn't caught up.
If gaming moves away from DirectX (with mobile gaming becoming more popular I can see this happening) then producers might be wanting to do more with OpenGL, or at least more open/portable toolkits to try and be able to move across a set of devices with minimal effort. Then the death knell for DX will sound.
How can DirectX die? There's nothing to replace it, and I don't think anyone wants to go back to the days of proprietary APIs.
Plus, like you said, OpenGL is a slow moving mess, especially now with sgi gone. PC gaming's only real edge over console gaming is the constant, rapid hardware progress. The gfx market depends on rapid cycles of both new eye candy and higher specs to attract buyers.
Slow that cycle down and see PC gaming become irrelevant in 3-4 years.
Dean Budd - 2012-04-27 12:05:43+1000 - Updated: 2012-04-27 12:08:01+1000
Good point. However Valve have just done something pretty serious by porting L4D2 to Linux.. that must have used OpenGL yeah? Unless source is talking directly to Graphics Drivers... I'm confused.
I'm sure it did use OpenGL. But it's still just a proof of concept.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the dethroning of DirectX. A move to OpenGL and an advance in Linux gaming would likely mean similar openings on OS X (which already has Steam etc, but still has very poor gaming choices).
But, at the very least, someone would need to pick up the mantle.
Microsoft right now is in very close cooperation with hardware and gaming vendors (I presume) to have a roadmap for the standard that probably sees 5 years into the future, and spanning both PCs and the XBox.
It is in their best interest to run the show as best they can.
Who else could command such clout, outside Microsoft's sphere of influence?
I'm sorry to say it, and I know the very mention of them gives you hives, +Dean Budd , but I can only think of Apple as a likely heavyweight that could attract enough attention. And they have a history of (a) not giving a shit about desktop gaming, and (b) being an absolute pain in the ass to work with. So I'd call that a wash.
I don't see DirectX going anywhere anytime soon, and I actually hope it stays on top. There's nobody else suitable to assume a community leadership position in the field.
Com'on, Surely a Ducati is more appropriate for the Mac - ie. Nice & pretty but crazy expensive & costs an arm & leg to run.
I do like the analogies - however the MotoGP bike for Linux is somewhat misleading. They are indeed powerful, but costs a million Euros a pop. Support is limited & parts are scarce. I think a cafe racer would be more appropriate. An enthusiast bike (ie. plenty of things to tweaks) & always pleasant to ride.
Sorry... :)
Plus, anyone here that's remotely geeky that's used their MBP will know that access to a real bash shell smokes both command.com or powershell. :)
The quality, however, would not.
my $0.15 as follows
the limitations of the OS X (especially coming from Windows camp ;) is just as much of a urban myth as it's some "magical" superior stability
(one area where I find Windows is "superior" is that it never fails (via Ctr-Alt-Del) to be able to bring up the task manager so you can kill an astray app stuck in some stupid infinite loop or some other stupid state... on OS X this is somewhat more problematic (unless you were wise enough to keep a terminal window running in anticipation of that very need ;)
(btw, +Alex Megremis made very good point about a real UNIX being "hidden" in the terminal window on OS X...
also - as not all people are aware of - once you install XCode you get in (/Developer) almost all of the "UNIX-y" bonanza created by humankind under auspices of the GNU/GCC/etc - i.e. GCC, Perl, Python, etc, etc
in my personal experiences, the file manager ("Finder") takes quite some cultural adjustment from a "normal" one (NortonCommander and/or Windows Explorer kind... (at least I know it takes 5 years in my case and is still work in progress...)
I honestly think the "Finder" is a holdover from the OS 9 (which was an ailing pile of crap)
Linux is great if you don't use GUI apps and multimedia,
also the GUI fonts are an OHS hazard for anyone with glasses (I know there are allegedly ways to tweak/fix that once you start deviating from the '100% free and open source' maxim, but you need some determination for that)
also "Linux on a desktop" - or rather multitude and frequency of the distros makes a great hobby for anyone with too much time on their hands (e.g unmarried young men)
re: Hardware
granted if you (still) are into "DIY" like +Dean Budd kits then OS X and Macs are out of the consideration - but if you buy all-assembled brands - I'd second +Martin Paulo comment about 27" iMac (as I have one too ;)
A classic tower on the floor layout will at a minimum require cables for:
tower-kbd
tower-mouse
tower-audio
tower-electricity
tower-monitor
and of course, monitor-power
People will pay a premium for in-case cable management, and yet find all this acceptable at a consumer good level. It's a bit of a head-in-the-sand situation.
I can't believe they stubbornly refuse to allow you to sort by name with folders at the top/bottom.
I was just interested in that I recently tried to buy a machine without windows that was about on par with the iMac and found that I couldn't.
I couldn't even find one with windows, to my surprise.
I now wonder if Microsoft is setting some sort of hardware requirements for windows that prevents people like dell from competing effectively with apple?
IMHO, Microsoft is hardly the one to be blamed here...
IMHO, Dell have been "sleeping at the wheel" and been doing so for quite some time and HP was even more so - in fact HP been more like "smoking something"... btw, did they "undo" yet that "executive decision" to get out of PC/laptops or they are going ahead with that...??
if any competition to Apple (hardware-wise) is going to show up I'd expect it to be Samsung or something like that...
If I'm right then the innovation will come from the android side of the world. And yes, Samsung or something like that. Perhaps even Google? http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57417863-94/meet-googles-secret-weapon-for-fighting-apple-and-microsoft/
I do miss the ability though to hack my kernel to strip out all the bits I don't want/need (or make them modules). With 16GB RAM, the kernel reserves ~1GB just for itself (it's a percentage thing - less total RAM would result in less reservation). I don't mind the kernel NOT running out of RAM, but a stripped done kernel would require even less :)
please...
A mate of mine tried to convert me to Hendrixism and gave me a couple of "best of" CDs. They'd been lifted directly from non digital recordings and the analog artifacts were clearly evident.
Now when one starts talking about digital recordings (apples to apples here) about > ~192kHZ that's when the wankering begins :D
I could likely pick the film shot over the digital, if they're shot in a way to show one's weakness over the other, and I could pick the kit zoom lens over the fast prime. You could pick the CD over the LP playback.
I wouldn't be able to pick one from the other for their audio fidelity, but rather maaaaaybe for the warmer sound I might perceive from an older amp.
You might pick the difference in the film vs digital, or the different look of the fast prime over the cheap kit zoom, but you won't know which is which, or why they matter.
It's all a specialist's perspective.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/127475-valve-confirms-steam-and-source-for-linux-signals-low-confidence-for-windows-8
Win8 might be a tad different, and people tend to hate different, but pigs will be flying over a frozen over Hell before Linux becomes anything more than a curiosity on the desktop.
Win8 is a brave move on MS's part. They're breaking the mould to some degree. As with all things widely visible and discussed on the web, there will be vocal haters and the relevant flamewars.
But it won't be a flop. The only way Windows could ever really be threatened would be if Apple sold their machines at half price, or if they face another Vista-like backlash (they won't, it's no longer "cool" to do MS-bashing).
I don't know why Valve is bothering with Linux ports. Maybe they're preparing to release to Android. Maybe it's an "just in case" move. Whatever the drive is, I doubt anyone really believes Windows could fail.
Everything else is just wishful thinking.
If gaming moves away from DirectX (with mobile gaming becoming more popular I can see this happening) then producers might be wanting to do more with OpenGL, or at least more open/portable toolkits to try and be able to move across a set of devices with minimal effort. Then the death knell for DX will sound.
There's nothing to replace it, and I don't think anyone wants to go back to the days of proprietary APIs.
Plus, like you said, OpenGL is a slow moving mess, especially now with sgi gone. PC gaming's only real edge over console gaming is the constant, rapid hardware progress. The gfx market depends on rapid cycles of both new eye candy and higher specs to attract buyers.
Slow that cycle down and see PC gaming become irrelevant in 3-4 years.
But it's still just a proof of concept.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the dethroning of DirectX. A move to OpenGL and an advance in Linux gaming would likely mean similar openings on OS X (which already has Steam etc, but still has very poor gaming choices).
But, at the very least, someone would need to pick up the mantle.
Microsoft right now is in very close cooperation with hardware and gaming vendors (I presume) to have a roadmap for the standard that probably sees 5 years into the future, and spanning both PCs and the XBox.
It is in their best interest to run the show as best they can.
Who else could command such clout, outside Microsoft's sphere of influence?
I'm sorry to say it, and I know the very mention of them gives you hives, +Dean Budd , but I can only think of Apple as a likely heavyweight that could attract enough attention. And they have a history of (a) not giving a shit about desktop gaming, and (b) being an absolute pain in the ass to work with. So I'd call that a wash.
I don't see DirectX going anywhere anytime soon, and I actually hope it stays on top. There's nobody else suitable to assume a community leadership position in the field.
I do like the analogies - however the MotoGP bike for Linux is somewhat misleading. They are indeed powerful, but costs a million Euros a pop. Support is limited & parts are scarce. I think a cafe racer would be more appropriate. An enthusiast bike (ie. plenty of things to tweaks) & always pleasant to ride.
:)